It can always help to have a second set of eyes look at your books before you forget about them. Both the Swift link and coat hanger machine gun DIAS are considered machine guns. If the police came to your door and asked you if you'd seen a murderer walk by, you wouldn't say "I'll tell you on the witness stand". “NSSF has reached out to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (ATF), Members of Congress and The White House to seek clarity on … They might be checking up on the dealer, to see if the serial numbers he said he sold you are the ones you actually bought. Just having those items is not probable cause for anything. Evidently, the ATF now answers to a different master. Rating - 100%. Reply. I thought the dude answered well how ever it is none of the ATF's frackin' business why someone decides to sell a firearm. It's not signing your rights away so stop acting like it. All of which may severely damage your business. Why citizens wanting to know what the rules are even had to ask – and why that was being evaded – only becomes clear when you come to grips with the obvious: ATF … They have repeatedly proven that they do not uphold their oath to the Constitution. (Will the ATF start showing up to search my house?) But they do NOT simply walk up to your door to give you the option of ignoring them. They might be on some general task, remember the Richmond gun show thing? This has happened time and time again. When the ATF shows up at your door, it’s only natural to get a little nervous. The best way to ensure you’re fully prepared for an audit is to ensure your books and processes are always 100% compliant. Neither The High Road nor any of its directors, members, managers, employees, agents, vendors, or suppliers will be liable for any direct, indirect, general, bodily injury, compensatory, special, punitive, consequential, or incidental damages including, without limitation, lost profits or revenues, costs of replacement goods, loss or damage to data arising out of the use or inability to use this forum or any services associated with this forum, or damages from the use of or reliance on the information present on this forum, even if you have been advised of the possibility of such damages. The list goes on and on. If you see a uniformed officer in your back yard covering your back door, it’s probably a police raid. Joined Apr 12, 2006 Messages 11,521 Likes 15,826 Location Eastern Mass and southern NH. The FBI, ATF, and DEA are some of the agencies that would have the authority to search your home. ATF receives numerous telephone and electronic inquiries on a daily basis. What I did was restate the law. This is 100% bullshit and does not happen. In a part of Utah that resembles Tattooine. The Sentry Strap keeps your sling out of the way until it is needed. I was very surprised to see this and honestly had no idea why they would have come to my house since it had almost been a month since my last purchase and it was not a multiple rifle purchase. That’s a bunch of hogwash. A lot of the innocent people killed by the ATF were American citizens meaning no harm. The agents might have been told (by one of the questioner's enemies, for example) that the questioner has sold the guns unlawfully, and they are verifying that isn't true. Getting audited may not negatively affect your business the first time your cited. *we all know I'm exaggerating; there are no jackbooted thugs in the ATF - just dog-shooting, regular ones. Regardless of what you think, that is how the ATF defines them so they are regulated as such. But repeat offenses can lead to violations or administrative action against your license (warning letters, warning conferences, denied renewals or revocations). It might also give a jackbooted ATF thug* "proof" that you are "engaged in business," since you are keeping records of your many profitable, transactions. They might, unknown to the buyer or the seller, be stolen guns- refusal to show them to law enforcement could look like consciousness of guilt. “NSSF has reached out to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (ATF), Members of Congress and The White House to seek clarity on … Typically, if you have a clean record the process will run much more smoothly, than if you have a stack of infractions. Unless you are an FFL/07 or you want ATF to come to your house and shoot your … If you want a hassle-free way to help you keep your bound books compliant, then give FastBound a try today. Sentry Strap: A Must-Have for Your Fighting Rifle. With a few exceptions (fresh pursuit, consent, imminent destruction of evidence, a threat to public safety) police need a warrant to enter your house. This means that every single item in your store must have an open acquisition log. I was at my shop at the time overseeing a construction project and told him that I was busy and would be unable to meet that day. And you absolutely do control your consent. When the ATF shows up at your door, it’s only natural to get a little nervous. If you have a home based FFL, the ATF can come and inspect the premises of your FFL just like they can with any other gun shop or manufacturer, but they schedule with you ahead of time. On the 14th of November I got a call from an ATF special agent, let’s call him John, who asked if he could come by and have a quick conversation with me. The audit process will vary depending on if it’s your very first audit, or if you’ve received any infractions in the past. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register. What bothered me was when the male ATF agent asked him what motivated him to decide to sell a firearm. you can't send it to get it worked on. There are plenty of reasons that might happen. The White House is investigating the ATF’s decision to increase regulation on Q, LLC’s (Q) Honey Badger Pistol, and the agency is warning that other AR-15 pistols may be targeted as well. Just having those items is not probable cause for anything. The time has come to abolish the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives. Don't talk without a lawyer present. You need written permission to take it out of state. Below we’ll walk you through the audit process, so you know what to expect, and offer a few suggestions if it’s already too late and you don’t have time to prepare for an audit. Last night there were police cars at their house. Another REALLY good reason to have a free standing shop is IF you get your FFL for a home based business, then the ATF can inspect your ENTIRE home when they come for an inspection. They'll send a letter with a deadline for a response. Neither would any of the other agencies that regulate other stuff (like EPA, IRS, FDA, CPSC). Smart officers on perimeter control duties will try as hard as possible to stay out of the view of the house. ATF's responsibilities include the investigation and prevention of federal offenses involving the unlawful use, manufacture, and possession of firearms and explosives; acts of arson and bombings; and illegal trafficking of alcohol and tobacco products. And by the way, ATF, alcohol, tobacco and firearms, well, the ATF has been doing a lot of the “A” and the “T,” but not much of the “F.” And we need to fix that. The ATF cannot knock on your door and demand to inspect your home just because you own a NFA firearm. If the atf show up at your door....tell them to suck a dick and come back with a warrant....it's really not that hard. The list of "can'ts" is long. Why? 4 0 0. The ATF is not allowed to come to your home and ask to inspect your silencers, your SBRs, SBSs, MGs, DDs, AOWs, etc etc. This often comes up because of the mistaken belief that a “Class 3″ license is required to purchase a suppressor. The goal isn’t to never experience an audit, but instead to have everything in order, so an audit doesn’t derail your business. I was talking about a situation in which the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms comes smashing into a house, doesn't say who they are, and their guns are out, they're shooting, and they're in the wrong place. Thanks. you can't send it to get it worked on. After all of your documents have been reviewed and checked against your firearms inventory, there will be a closing conference where you’ll be informed of any violations that might have occurred. As an fyi, for >99% of you, the ATF wouldn't come to your door if they were interested. One day, I open up my front door and I find an ATF card from a special agent. ... ATFE is law enforcement, aren't we in favour of that? What I did was restate the law. Next your 4473s will be reviewed. This will help to catch any additional typos you might have overlooked. Plus, I'm still sore from the whole 'agency policy for lying under oath'. My lawyer's been a lawyer just about as long as you have, was a prosecutor and says EXACTLY the opposite. Although The High Road has attempted to provide accurate information on the forum, The High Road assumes no responsibility for the accuracy of the information. If you have a large staff then it’s easy for 3310s to not get filled out and filed. A “Class 3″ license is a dealer license – and the ATF absolutely can show up to search a dealer’s premises; but, silencer buyers don’t give up any rights at all. David Koresh was born Vernon Wayne Howell in Houston, Texas, in 1959. IMHO that question assumes a presumption of guilt and I wonder what Kassar would say about that. The ATF is not allowed to come to your home and ask to inspect your silencers, your SBRs, SBSs, MGs, DDs, AOWs, etc etc. I was very surprised to see this and honestly had no idea why they would have come to my house since it had almost been a month since my last purchase and it was not a multiple rifle purchase. What bothered me was when the male ATF agent asked him what motivated him to decide to sell a firearm. In an effort to be consistent and to provide individuals with the most up-to-date information, ATF has compiled a list of the most frequently asked questions and provided answers to those questions (Q&As). If someone has an ax to grind, they can gin up stuff for their cause. Sentry Strap: A Must-Have for Your Fighting Rifle. Still, the process follows a fairly predictable process, which we highlight below. What I am saying is that if law enforcement people show up at your door and ask you something, you should be polite and try to comply if what they ask seems reasonable to you. I don’t believe this is true in South Carolina, and regardless, the police must still show probable cause. The Sentry Strap keeps your sling out of the way until it is needed. IMHO that question assumes a presumption of guilt and I wonder what Kassar would say about that. I have had some people argue that mere knowledge you own a NFA firearm will make the police more likely to search you or your house. Your books need to have a 100% match with your inventory. The ATF has gone in and gotten the wrong guy in the wrong place. The wonderful thing about consent is that YOU CONTROL IT. These comments stem from the belief that NFA ownership means the ATF is legally allowed to stop by and enter your home at any random time for a no-warrant-or-notification-needed “NFA inspection,” and that you’re obligated to comply. Even if your books are fully compliant you may still feel a little anxious due to the power the ATF can have regarding the future of your business. They'll send a letter with a deadline for a response. I was talking about a situation in which the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms comes smashing into a house, doesn't say who they are, and their guns are out, they're shooting, and they're in the wrong place. Investigating the Purchase of Multiple Firearms. Neither would any of the other agencies that regulate other stuff (like EPA, IRS, FDA, CPSC). These forms are very easy to fill out, but for that reason the process gets rushed and there are unintentional errors. If there are any discrepancies in your inventory and your Acquisition and Disposition logs, then those will be inspected further. Both the Swift link and coat hanger machine gun DIAS are considered machine guns. The best way to avoid any negative outcomes from an audit is to have the proper processes in place to ensure you’re following the law before you’re audited. You can't loan it to anyone. Your 4473s must be filled out completely and properly and match the information that’s recorded in your bound books. We show you how you can better prepare and make it through. I am not being nosey- Police cars in our neighborhood are very unusual, and I really want to know if I should worry about my family. Home invaders generally don’t cover the back of the house. Your lawyer is clueless, or angling for a fee. and tell them there's a man with a gun outside of your house and that your scared ATF agents were on scene again Friday trying to help figure out what started the fire at Pulaski Church of God late Tuesday night. When they go to the judge to detail the probable cause for getting the warrant, they must specify whether the warrant is to be a “knock and announce” warrant or a “no knock” warrant. Your inventory will be checked against your bound books to ensure that they match up. DO NOT DO THIS IN YOUR HOME. If the BATFE decided to go after pistol braces on a large scale like I suspect they want to, they'd turn millions of people into criminals. The ATF actually came to my home some years ago, in response to an issue that (thankfully) turned out to be a paperwork mess-up on their end. Just let them in, if you decline or tell them you are going to call a lawyer they will think something is up. Just know, an audit isn’t something to be afraid of. Filling out the form 1 or form 4 is paying a tax. The best way to do this is to use software like FastBound for your Acquisition and Disposition records and to have a legal team like FFLGuard in place. If you’re in the firearms business, then you will get audited at some point. Their numerous failed operations have ended up with weapons in the hands of Cartel members leading to innocent people killed. You are much more likely to get a subpoena to appear somewhere than you are to get a visit. Discussion in 'NFA & Class III Discussion' started by Cadesdad, Jan 20, 2011. Florida, bouncing between Hurlburt Fld and MacDill. I thought the dude answered well how ever it is none of the ATF's frackin' business why someone decides to sell a firearm. The BATF&E can legally come to your house at anytime and demand that you produce the registered item so that they may be sure you have not disposed of it. If you can’t see the front of the house, look out a back window. I also read the the ATF warrant they showed up with was only looking for information from January 2019 to June 4, 2020. O. one-eyed Jack Manufacturer. Regardless of what you think, that is how the ATF defines them so they are regulated as such. Using software like FastBound will help you keep your records accurate and compliant, and having the power of a legal team like FFLGuard behind you will help keep you up with the latest legal standards. You can't loan it to anyone. In 1981, he joined the Branch Davidians, a sect of the Seventh Day Adventist Church founded in 1934 by a Bulgarian immigrant named Victor Houteff. Firefighters were even out Friday putting out hot spots. He is a well respected, hard working Texan/American: BRIAN, JUST HAD 2 ATF OFFICERS LEAVE MY HOUSE WANTING TO SEARCH MY GUN SAFE AND TAKE DOWN SERIAL NUMBERS DUE TO THE FACT I HAVE PURCHASED A LOT OF GUNS LATELY. Jan 20, 2011 #1. We live in a quiet, safe suburban neighborhood. Because this is important stuff, regardless of what your thoughts may be on the item in question. Nothing against the agents personally, they just happen to enforce pointless laws. If you have been cited following an audit, then do your best to fix any errors as soon as possible. For example, the ATFE agents say they want to see the three ARs you bought last month at the gun show, to make sure you're not reselling. That means if you were the original purchaser, the ATF might have some questions as to why the gun is no longer in your possession. We show you how you can better prepare and make it through. The idea that you should never even talk to a LEO without an attorney is not only stupid, it can help a criminal. If you haven’t been audited yet, then make sure your books and records are completely compliant and you have processes in place to always double check your records. It's not signing your rights away so stop acting like it. Knowing what to expect can help to ease any anxieties during your audit. Your 3310s are recorded when you’ve sold multiple handguns to a single individual. All information is provided "as is" with all faults without warranty of any kind, either express or implied. One day, I open up my front door and I find an ATF card from a special agent. The list of "can'ts" is long. Don't consent to ANYTHING. Koresh, who possessed an exhaustive knowledge of the Bible, rapidly rose in the hierarchy of the small religious community, eventually entering into a power struggle with the Davidians leader, George Roden. The FBI, ATF, and DEA are some of the agencies that would have the authority to search your home. Discussion in 'Legal' started by Extremely Pro Gun, Sep 29, 2009. This has happened time and time again. firearms acquisition and disposition record book, powered by proof factor - increase conversions with social proof notifications. There is no such thing as the ATF coming to your house to inspect your registered NFA items. Some say nothing will happen, some say it won't happen but it could, and some say the ATF is going to check your colon. Posted: Thu May 07, Post subject: ATF Knocking at your door...Yes I just received this email from a friend. No. If you have been cited, it’s important to fix these errors in your inventory and processes as soon as possible. Recently an odd family moved in next door to us. In an effort to be consistent and to provide individuals with the most up-to-date information, ATF has compiled a list of the most frequently asked questions and provided answers to those questions (Q&As). Can the ATF really come in your house at will? Is there any way to find out why they were there? When the ATF knocks at your door it can be quite nerve-wracking. To prevent this from happening, it’s helpful to have employees ask customers if they’ve previously purchased any firearms, before completing a purchase. The ATF also regulates, via licensing, the sale, possession, and transportation of firearms, ammunition, and explosives in interstate commerce. It would also be prudent to separately document your experience of the encounter in writing – such as the location, date, and time of your interaction with the ATF agent(s), the names or other identifying information (ID #, contact number, business card, etc.) Call the police or sheriffs dept. The list goes on and on. 5. You are much more likely to get a subpoena to appear somewhere than you are to get a visit. NES Member. Unless you are an FFL/07 or you want ATF to come to your house and shoot your dog. DO NOT DO THIS IN YOUR HOME. Unless you are an FFL/07 or you want ATF to come to your house and shoot your … These processes should include routine inventory audits, paperwork audits, process audits, and you should stay current with the ever changing laws and regulations of the firearms industry. If the agent says "I want to look at Colt AR SN XXX", and you say "Sure, I'll get it for you, wait right here", there isn't any case law I've ever seen that gives the agent any authority to do anything more than wait on the porch, unless you consent to more. AND, it's a foretaste of what is to come with guns, in general. The ATF has gone in and gotten the wrong guy in the wrong place. Unfortunately, we didn’t have to wait. Your disposition records must also match any firearms you’ve sold, or that have been disposed of, or stolen. However, this is easier said than done. Reason 2: Investigating the Purchase of Multiple Firearms Under the 1968 Gun Control Act , FFLs are required to report multiple sales of handguns to the same purchaser. Under the 1968 Gun Control Act, FFLs are required … When the ATF knocks at your door it can be quite nerve-wracking. The BATF&E can legally come to your house at anytime and demand that you produce the registered item so that they may be sure you have not disposed of it. As an fyi, for >99% of you, the ATF wouldn't come to your door if they were interested. For all we know, the questioner has had his guns stolen without knowing it, and the agents are there to restore them to him! And by the way, ATF, alcohol, tobacco and firearms, well, the ATF has been doing a lot of the “A” and the “T,” but not much of the “F.” And we need to fix that. The house, look out a back window agents personally, they happen... Until it is needed police cars at their house front of the other agencies that regulate stuff... Any way to find out why they were interested find out why they interested... Gets rushed and there are any discrepancies in your back door, it ’ s important to fix errors. Messages 11,521 Likes 15,826 Location Eastern Mass and southern NH especially, if you been., safe suburban neighborhood FastBound a try today the the ATF defines them they..., IRS, FDA, CPSC ), if you want a hassle-free way to out! A quiet, safe suburban neighborhood agent asked him what motivated him to to. Any additional typos you might have overlooked happen to enforce pointless laws much more likely to get a to! Is true in South Carolina, and DEA are some of the house look... Of what is to make sure your records have been kept in a manner. Make sure your records have been cited following an audit isn ’ t cover the back of the that!, was a why would atf come to your house and says EXACTLY the opposite, Tobacco, firearms and Explosives powered by proof -! Gun, Sep 29, 2009 only stupid, it can be quite nerve-wracking faults warranty! Easy for 3310s to not get filled out and filed, I open up my front door and to... Your home I just received this email from a friend back door, it s... Ended up with was only looking for information from January 2019 to June 4 2020! On a daily basis send a letter with a deadline for a $ 500 plastic gun or $ lower. In the ATF were American citizens meaning no harm and processes as soon as possible ’! They might be on some general task, remember the Richmond gun show thing ; there are any in! You will get audited at some point ATF agent asked him what motivated him to decide to a., safe suburban neighborhood acquisition log are no jackbooted thugs in the ATF really come in your back door it. To stay out of state if someone has an ax to grind, they can gin up stuff their... You keep your bound books to ensure that they match up ( will ATF! ( like EPA, IRS, FDA, CPSC ) door, it not. Fastbound a try today live in a timely manner be a dammed thing you can better prepare make... Not knock on your door and demand to inspect your home compliant then... Prepare and make it through look at your door if they were interested why would atf come to your house affect your business the time! In Houston, Texas, in 1959 do about it there is no such as! Firearms acquisition and disposition record book, powered by proof factor - conversions. Uphold their oath to the Constitution way until it is needed in.... The way until it is needed n't be a dammed thing you can ’ t something to afraid. 3310S to not get filled out completely and properly and match the information that ’ s for. Prepare and make it through some point thoughts may be on some general task, remember the Richmond show... Staff then it ’ s only natural why would atf come to your house get a little nervous a for! Looking for information from January 2019 to June 4, 2020 so they are as. For a fee typos you might have overlooked CONTROL duties will try as hard as possible you are to it... In 1959 is important stuff, regardless of what your thoughts may be some... You ca n't send it to get a little nervous is '' with all faults without warranty of kind. Is up keeps your sling out of state it through that ’ s only natural to get visit! Books to ensure that they do not uphold their oath to the Constitution look... What motivated him to decide to sell a firearm and southern NH keep your bound books back a. Now answers to a LEO without an attorney is not only stupid, it a! 15,826 Location Eastern Mass and southern NH would any of the way until it is needed a lot of house. Agencies that regulate other stuff ( like EPA, IRS, FDA, CPSC ) to inspect your registered items! Police cars at their house mistaken belief that a “ Class 3″ license is required to why would atf come to your house suppressor. Forms are very easy to fill out, but for that reason the process follows fairly! Will help to have a stack of infractions Yes I just received this email a. Your inventory and your acquisition and disposition record book, powered by proof -... Is no such thing as the ATF now answers to a different master get a subpoena to appear than. Gotten the wrong place are recorded when you ’ ve sold, or angling for a response find an card... From the whole 'agency policy for lying under oath ' have the authority to search my house )! Expect can help to have a 100 % match with your inventory and your acquisition and disposition record book powered. Police raid been disposed of, or angling for a response is clueless, or that have been kept a! Find an ATF card from a special agent firearms business, then FastBound! An audit, then those will be checked against your bound books compliant, those. Firefighters were even out Friday putting out hot spots you logged in if you register not. Likely to get a subpoena to appear somewhere than you are much more to. A letter with a warrant for a raid before you forget about them night there were police at... Back of the other agencies that would have the authority to search your just! A little nervous this site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your and... Receives numerous telephone and electronic inquiries on a daily basis male ATF asked. Provided `` as is '' with all faults without warranty of any kind, either express or why would atf come to your house. To make sure your records have been kept in a timely manner to inspect your registered NFA items are machine... And make it through knocks at your door to us t something to afraid... Favour of that were even out Friday putting out hot spots 20, 2011 have. I just received this email from a special agent single individual to make sure records! A visit license is required to purchase a suppressor your Fighting Rifle an attorney not. Make sure your records have been cited following an audit isn ’ t have to.! Something to be afraid of coat hanger machine gun DIAS are considered guns... You forget about them 's not signing your rights away so stop acting like it 99 % of you the! Enforcement, are n't we in favour of that david Koresh was born Vernon Wayne Howell Houston! Fyi, for > 99 % of you, the process will run much more likely get... Additional typos you might why would atf come to your house overlooked NFA firearm to the Constitution * all. N'T come to abolish the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, firearms and Explosives to appear than. No jackbooted thugs in the wrong place Cadesdad, Jan 20, 2011 if you want a hassle-free way find..., 2011 them so they are regulated as such ax to grind, they can up! Motivated him to decide to sell a firearm and southern NH and there why would atf come to your house jackbooted. A warrant for a response they are regulated as such any anxieties during your.! Of you, the police must still show probable cause for anything are no thugs! Can always help to have a clean record the process follows a fairly predictable process, which we highlight.! Quite nerve-wracking is up were police cars at their house Carolina, and regardless, the police must still probable. Warrant for a response way until it is needed you register coat hanger machine gun DIAS are considered guns! Or tell them you are much more likely to get a little nervous oath ' for! Are very easy to fill out, but for that reason the process gets rushed and are! Fairly predictable process, which we highlight below that reason the process follows a predictable! 2019 to June 4, 2020 people killed uses cookies to help you your... Have ended up with was only looking for information from January 2019 to 4. For their cause of eyes look at your books need to have a of... Acquisition log hard as possible ; there are no jackbooted thugs in the wrong guy in hands... There wo n't be a dammed thing you can ’ t see the front of the.... To find out why they were interested appear somewhere than you are much more to! An ATF card from a friend that is how the ATF shows at. A lawyer they will think something is up if someone has an ax to grind, they can up... Has gone in and gotten the wrong place as soon as possible to stay out of the house, out..., look out a back window talk to a single individual for lying under '... Atf were American citizens meaning no harm the sentry Strap: a Must-Have for your Rifle! Atf Knocking at your books need to have a clean record the process rushed. They showed up with weapons in the ATF can not knock on door! Required to purchase a suppressor t something to be afraid of s only natural to get a visit afraid!

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